Comments on: Canadian Banks Begin Circumventing Mortgage Stress Test For High-Income Clients https://betterdwelling.com/canadian-banks-begin-circumventing-mortgage-stress-test-for-high-income-clients/ Canada’s Fastest Growing Real Estate News Source Mon, 26 Apr 2021 21:29:15 +0000 hourly 1 By: Mortgage Guy https://betterdwelling.com/canadian-banks-begin-circumventing-mortgage-stress-test-for-high-income-clients/#comment-70968 Mon, 26 Apr 2021 21:29:15 +0000 https://betterdwelling.com/?p=16327#comment-70968 In reply to Kris.

They can keep expanding debt ratios or amortizations, but it ultimately leads to slower future economic growth. Every year you add, you remove a year of that person spending into the economy.

The government would have to be exceptionally incompetent to execute on that.

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By: Mortgage Guy https://betterdwelling.com/canadian-banks-begin-circumventing-mortgage-stress-test-for-high-income-clients/#comment-70966 Mon, 26 Apr 2021 21:22:46 +0000 https://betterdwelling.com/?p=16327#comment-70966 In reply to Steve Zullo.

Literally not true. This is an automated validation program that was rolled out on April 12. Part of the reason they aren’t discussing it is because it’s not available to the broker channel.

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By: Steve Zullo https://betterdwelling.com/canadian-banks-begin-circumventing-mortgage-stress-test-for-high-income-clients/#comment-70962 Mon, 26 Apr 2021 18:36:04 +0000 https://betterdwelling.com/?p=16327#comment-70962 Hi. Scotia and a couple lenders have always done this. I”m mortgage broker and can already get GDS and TDS of up to 47% fairly easy for decent clients. They don’t need $120K income, but good credit. Not a big deal and they’ve always done it. So do the other banks. This is for conventional files only, when client has more than 20% down. If anyone wants access to this program, let me know.

I can even get 70% TDS through another national lender with an incredible Home Equity Line of Credit. My understanding is that banks are allowed to have a small percentage of their portfolio in ‘non-conforming’ mortgages and that’s what these products are.

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By: Kris https://betterdwelling.com/canadian-banks-begin-circumventing-mortgage-stress-test-for-high-income-clients/#comment-70956 Mon, 26 Apr 2021 16:48:24 +0000 https://betterdwelling.com/?p=16327#comment-70956 That’s what the debt ratios used to be. I remember back in the early 2000’s when the Gross debt service ratio was 30% and the Total debt service ratio was 40%. You could actually buy a home and feasibly strive to pay it off one day.

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By: Kris https://betterdwelling.com/canadian-banks-begin-circumventing-mortgage-stress-test-for-high-income-clients/#comment-70955 Mon, 26 Apr 2021 16:45:59 +0000 https://betterdwelling.com/?p=16327#comment-70955 In reply to D.

The Gov will do whatever it takes to prevent that from happening and if they can’t they will just modify mortgage lending regulations. For example 35, 45 or even 50 year amortizations, loan modification programs to extend existing amortizations etc…. These politicos are knees deep invested in housing themselves.

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By: Kris https://betterdwelling.com/canadian-banks-begin-circumventing-mortgage-stress-test-for-high-income-clients/#comment-70954 Mon, 26 Apr 2021 16:42:18 +0000 https://betterdwelling.com/?p=16327#comment-70954 In reply to Trader Jim.

The banks are not actually taken on all the risk. These loans are bundled and sold with other conventional loans as mortgage backed securities. In many cases these bundles are securitized and insured by the CMHC. Now here is a shocker for you …. This also happens in the private mortgage lending world as well to a degree. Some of the large MIC’s (Mortgage Investment Corporations) bundle and sell too. This is essentially tax payer funded insurance for the wealthy and the banks.

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By: Oops https://betterdwelling.com/canadian-banks-begin-circumventing-mortgage-stress-test-for-high-income-clients/#comment-70914 Sat, 24 Apr 2021 07:19:41 +0000 https://betterdwelling.com/?p=16327#comment-70914 In reply to Ottawa Resident.

Middle class was a sociocultural definition. It’s more complex than looking at the distribution of incomes and finding the middle 45-55 and calling it a day.

Reality is that 100-150 is basically middle class in the mid decade of 2010s and you can enjoy a condo in Toronto. Wage gains are not powering the city, debt and speculation is. You cannot be middle class if you are questioning your finances continuously. Historically, the middle class was never really insecure. Today, you are very much wondering what your future is with 100-150k per year in a city where housing values are being juiced up to the tits every year. One wrong move and you’re left to live in a tiny shoebox unless you enjoy commuting for hours. Doesn’t sound middle class at all to me. The upper middle class (for now) enjoys the security that the middle class once did. These are the professionals and managerial class. The security is a critical component of the definition of “middle class.” You simply cannot be middle class if you are insecure, ESPECIALLY about owning housing.

Don’t even get me started on the threshold to become “rich” post 2008 GFC QE. To become a member of the asset holding class you have to really kill it.

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By: Oops https://betterdwelling.com/canadian-banks-begin-circumventing-mortgage-stress-test-for-high-income-clients/#comment-70913 Sat, 24 Apr 2021 07:11:30 +0000 https://betterdwelling.com/?p=16327#comment-70913 In reply to Vince.

The very things that make this country a “safe” haven are the very things being undermined by the ridiculousness of the housing market: prosperity and industry. Both will die as more productive capital is absorbed by the FIRE industry and you make your country brutally uncompetitive globally with land value inflation and leading G7 consumer/govt debt values. Also social safety nets will need to get paid for somehow and since there’s no wage gains from productivity, something will need to be taxed. There is no such thing as a highly taxed Monaco, you’ll do well to remember this. Don’t say tech because a branch plant of an American company does little for our industry.

And LOL at the bit about the housing market being more robust than equity markets. The bulk of the housing gains in this country are driven by debt and foreign “investment.” You think it’s wise to put your savings into this tiny country’s seemingly “robust” over the monopolies (with fat margins) of the empire down south of us? Get real. If their equity bubble continues with the FED, so will ours. Absurd to think we can print our way out of this or flood the country with immigrant labour to deliver UBEREATS and work for 40-60k per year for eternity.

Get real.

I’ll keep most my savings with the Americans. I suggest those reading do the same.

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By: Ottawa Resident https://betterdwelling.com/canadian-banks-begin-circumventing-mortgage-stress-test-for-high-income-clients/#comment-70897 Sat, 24 Apr 2021 01:30:37 +0000 https://betterdwelling.com/?p=16327#comment-70897 In reply to John smart.

Cute. It’s 50% above the median household income, and Toronto has one of the lowest medians in the country. I make multiples of that, and I’m not trying to dismiss it’s a lot of money compared to what most make.

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By: Ottawa Resident https://betterdwelling.com/canadian-banks-begin-circumventing-mortgage-stress-test-for-high-income-clients/#comment-70896 Sat, 24 Apr 2021 01:29:31 +0000 https://betterdwelling.com/?p=16327#comment-70896 In reply to Vince.

Dude. If you have no clue what you’re talking about, you shouldn’t be rude to people.

The government official was having a public discussion with the author when he said it.

Catch up. What are you like a real estate agent in some small rural town? The guy that wrote this piece is the person who does the reports for the governments and basically any hedge fund that deals with Canadian credit.

If he wanted to crash the market, he could literally just tell Millennials to not to buy. He just doesn’t.

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